Contesting for the ball after the tackle

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Contesting for the ball after the tackle

(16 posts)

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Posted 2 years ago
winger14
Moderator

Finally something from the IRB to make this clear...

Ruling Request from the NZRU and ARU Law 15 and 16
Law 15 6 (b) states:
After a tackle any players on their feet may attempt to gain possession by taking the
ball from the ball carriers possession.
Law 16.1 (b) states:
How can a ruck form? Players are on their feet. At least one player must be in
physical contact with an opponent. The ball is on the ground.
Law 16.4 (b) states:
(b) Players must not handle the ball in a ruck.
When a player has complied with Law 15 6 (b), is on his feet and playing the ball after
a tackle and is then joined by an opposition player on his feet so that the situation
outlined in 16 1 (b) occurs, can the player who has complied with Law 15 6 (b) continue
to play the ball with his hands or at what point does he have to release the ball?
This does not appear to be covered by Law.
Ruling
Law 15 6 (a) states: After a tackle, all other players must be on their feet when they
play the ball. .......
Law 15.6 (b) reads: After a tackle any player on their feet may attempt to gain
possession by taking the ball from the ball carriers possession.

Law 15 5 (e) states that: If opposition players who are on their feet, the tackled player
must release the ball.
This indicates that after a tackle a player on his feet may play the ball.
Law 16 1 (b) states: How can a ruck form? Players are on their feet. At least one
player must be in physical contact with an opponent. The ball is on the ground.
Law 16.1 refers to a player from each side in physical contact over the ball and implies
that the ball is not in the possession of any player.
Providing a player from either side on their feet after a tackle comply with all aspects of
Law 15 and have the ball in their hands prior to contact with an opposition player on
his feet those players may continue with possession of the ball even if a player from
the opposition makes contact with those players in possession of the ball.
Any other players joining the two players contesting the ball must not handle the ball in
accordance with Law 16.4 (b). If the ball is not in possession of any player after a
tackle and a ruck is formed players may not use their hands in accordance with Law
16.4 (b).

The Ruling is effective from May 23 for the start of matches in the June window
and after the close of any domestic or cross border competitions

Posted 2 years ago #
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Posted 2 years ago
Toothlesstiger
Moderator

I am surprised at your confusion in this matter.

If you are tackled and you go to ground and member of the opposition is on his feet has the right to take the ball from the tackled player who is obliged to release the ball. If the opposition player on his feet with the ball is engaged by another member of your team then a maul is formed and not a ruck as the ball is in hand and not on the ground when your player arrives.

That my dear winger 14 is just simple logic.

Stop confusing you me and other as well as your self spouting all these laws and sub sections.

Laws as opposed to rules are open to interpretation by the referee and in the Southern Hemisphere they only use the rule book and it's various numbers when they want something that the "Limey's" in Twickenham see as tradition, ethos and legend and might require them to move into the new era of the professional game.

Posted 2 years ago #
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Posted 2 years ago
winger14
Moderator

Toothless,

Try refereeing one day...

The ball can be touching a players hands and still be on the ground. If it happens once it happens a hundred times ina agme. I suggest you watch any game anywhere and prove me wrong.

And by the way it's a ruck not a maul unless the ball is off the deck, and all the players are on their feet. A maul also requires at least 3 players not 2, and 1 of the three has to be from the other team...

The IRB has simply stated that a if you are contesting for the ball priro to the ruck and you are on you feet, and got there legally, you can keep your hands on the ball even after the ruck has formed...

Sorry if I thought that was obvious...

Next time I'll use pictures for you.

Winger14

Posted 2 years ago #
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Posted 2 years ago
shack
Member

what the hell !! Now I need a picture

Posted 2 years ago #
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Posted 2 years ago
hornybee
Member

and the ruck would then turn into a maul, if the allowed player who was touching the ball legally before the ruck formed picks it up?

Posted 2 years ago #
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Posted 2 years ago
winger14
Moderator

Yep, although it would start out as a ruck if the ball was still on the deck.

The interesting one NEXT year will be players not being allowed to collapse the maul, now that they've had a season of doing the opposite...

Winger14

Posted 2 years ago #
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Posted 2 years ago
irishlock
Member

To me it is crazy that they are trialing 'experimental' variations on a global basis and we have got to a point where different unions / regions are effectively playing different sets of rules.

No one can tell me that the extended periods of kicking back and forth is in any way an improvement on the previous 'boring' rugby; mauls and all.

Posted 2 years ago #
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Posted 2 years ago
Toothlesstiger
Moderator

Toothlesstiger here again Mr. Winger, you may well like many referees out weigh me in certificates and the number of the games that you have been responsible for as a game official, however, not all who are on the field as an official are the best equipped to do the job but none the less they should & has to be granted respect especially on the field with their whistle in hand.

Mr Winger you are now playing of the field of cyberspace here and in my opinion as in many others around the World do not see the Laws Committee of the iRB and the referees have "managed" the current laws covering this aspect of the Game.

The current laws seem to beyond most referees, and that is including all of this plethora of T.V broadcasts not just the local patch, abilities to interpret what they see before them at such a break down while assessing the situation and rendering their decisions.

On your feet and its many current variations cannot and should not be interpreted as we currently see. It is an area of mayhem & a physical shambles leading to stomping and recently Quinlan's " eye gouging".

As I mentioned in my earlier piece, I did miscall a maul being between two player, however I stand by the rest of my post on this matter.

Anything in the way being proposed has to better than the current "dogs breakfast" that constantly leads to atrocious rugby and it subsequently penalty kicking competition and not imaginative open, fast moving rugby that you would want to pay your buck at the gate to enjoy.

I was never coached nor encouraged and I do not see school coaches coach to entrap the opposition into giving penalties away. Is defencive rugby come to this?

Posted 2 years ago #
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Posted 2 years ago
winger14
Moderator

Toothless...

Have you been hanging out with Harry at the local saloon?

I may be cyberspace, you are lost in space.

There are/were two sets of laws, the global ones useed for internationals and the trial ELV's being used in the S14 competition. The difference in the two was the reduction of most tackle offences to a FK.

The clarification from the IRB actually had squat to do with the ELVs. It had more to do with this question...

"Do the Richie McCaws and the George Smiths of the world have to let go of the ball once the ruck has formed ot can they go on contesting for the ball"

Assuming of course that they got there legally.

The answer is now... No they don't.

Simple.

Don't make it complicated.

And by the way if I feel like writing a post on the laws in the appropriate section, I will. Especially if it bugs the hell out of you. Nothing I love better than winding up a pompous windbag, it gives me a sense of well being and peace, knowing that I have contributed to making an overbearing bully go red in the face.

There now I feel better...

Winger14

Posted 2 years ago #
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Posted 2 years ago
Harry Craig
Member

Thanks for the kudos winger, but I don't think I know the toothless one. I did have a few wobbly pops at the Wanderers clubhouse in Ajax after reffing an intersquad game and the coach mentioned he got an e-mail from you. Any chance of you making it back to Ajax in July for the 60th.

Posted 2 years ago #
winger14
Moderator

I doubt I'll be able to make it, which is unfortunate. I have no doubt it'll be a great celebration!

Winger14

Posted 2 years ago #
Harry Craig
Member

If you're not there I'll raise one to you anyways. I just don't have to raise it very high.

Posted 2 years ago #
winger14
Moderator

:-)

Posted 2 years ago #
Toothlesstiger
Moderator

Well Trevor it has been fun getting you all wound up. Glad I have provided you with some form of relieve.

The joke is on you Bouyho, sorry. Afteral you are a perfect referee with his nice neat jersey, pressed shorts and the socks pulled up, with them at the exact same height and your Blaster wrapped on a bleached lanyard around your left wrist, pencil just protruding just enough above the top of your right sock.

I believe the thing that would upset the perfect ref before taking the field would not having a full length mirror in his dressing room.

Posted 2 years ago #
Harry Craig
Member

There is no perfect ref and there will never be one.

Posted 2 years ago #
winger14
Moderator

Now that was funny.

I've never carried a pencil in my sock.

My legs are too short and the tip gets stuck in my cleats.

Also...full length mirrors for me never come close enough to the floor.

You're still a pompous windgag...and woefully wrong...and I still feel better... :-)

PS... Feel free to have the last word.

Winger14

Posted 2 years ago #