Preparation for World Cup 2010 « Canadian Rugby Forums

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Preparation for World Cup 2010

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Posted 1 year ago
pwharcourt
Member

I get a bit tired of reading about how Edmonton screwed up the last womens world cup to the tune of 800k when the entire event was run by Rugby Canada. They even had paid staff in a temporary office and you can believe that every RC admin or staff member were there. There is no way that event could have cost 800k even if air travel was included. The food was magnificent and it is too bad that some of the entries had no money as we had to keep a couple of entrants from continuously raiding the buffet for their evening meal.
I recognize the contribution made by Ladies in our game and hope they continue and on some cases last a little longer playing than they do now. I also would contribute to a ladies world cup fund as long as it was run entirely separate from RC and Nick and Karl's junior fund used to run.
i would also like to make a comment re the stadium question. How do you place a stadium in a country which is 4k miles wide and 300 miles deep. Who has done the best job and bids should be the key. Building edifices is not the solution.
Peter

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
rugby.development
Member

Peter not all staff was at the WRWC in Edmonton as a number back at the office working on other things. However every board member and member of the blazer brigade was there.

Peter Edmonton did a very good job hosting the event and the volunteers should be commended for it.

A separate fund would be great Canadian Rugby Foundation are you listening?

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Frank
Member

The Rugby Canada Foundation was set up because the rugby community would not send monies to Rugby Canada anymore. I hear the rugby supporters were skeptical of how the monies was divided into the programmes or even if it made it to the programmes.

Again "rugby development guy" your easy solution is to ask the foundation to cover your shortfall and your inability to plan for the womens world cup. This is the most important peak of their 4 year campaign and your development model failed to deliver.

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
winger14
Moderator

Frank,

I believe the Rugby Development Guy was suggesting that the CRF to set up an infrastructure to donate money to.

Seems like a good idea so why crap all over him? Like all good ideas if someone had thought of it sooner perhaps it would have been done sooner.

He didn't ask the CRF to cover anyone's shortfall, let alone his.

Winger14

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Frank
Member

Winger is it not the role of the national sporting organization to provide funds and resources for all the national programs? They failed in providing this for the women's team and now they are holing their hat out for a tenr'. With this short sighted approach they should join the rest of bums on government street.

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
winger14
Moderator

Frank,

I don't question that assertion.

I question you suggesting that Rugby Development Guy was responsible.

Rugby Canada does not come up with enough funding to support all of the National programs.

Going from Trevor Arnold's report, we have approximately 23,000 registered participants. If I was an impartial potential sponsor, that is not going to make me return a call for sponsorship.

Like it or not, our money will come from the IRB and Government (if they are in the mood) until we can grow the game.

Winger14

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Faust
Moderator

That is the issue, the game is not growing. When I started in Alberta, they had 4 divisions of mens, now they have only 3 and the third division is on life support. That is the issue. If it were not for the women joining in the numbers, then men's sides would be in serious troubles.

Frank, I am not disagreeing with you, but it is 2010 and RWC for Women is 2010. I am not going to fight Rugby Canada for $10, but we will kick some butts to the curb if they do not improve the game in this country. It has been 10 years since the agents of change, I have seen the needle still point south.

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
winger14
Moderator

Faust,

I agree. The women's game has been a saving grace for many clubs. We need to do a much better job as a sport of getting kids involved at an earlier age and retaining them...not that we haven't said that before.

Save the how's for another post...

Winger14

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
Toothlesstiger
Moderator

[i]What a thread on the inadequacies of both the Governing Committees and it's professional staff.

To start with the Committee members of R.C. ( you may recall that their was a dysfunctional bunch of Canadian rugby gurus whom we the membership used to vote in and as of 4 or 5 years ago we the members allowed this group to amend the by-laws of R.C to follow the preferred structure of the iRB)take their guidance on all matters relating to the many different programs from their Benefactors in Dublin.

The iRB drive the RWC Sevens and through that effort have attained entry into the Olympics in '16. Well that covers off the iRB and supposedly womens rugby needs as they will also participate in Brazil.

Our ladies have achieved unbelievable levels of fundraising on their own and if we all sat down and think about it a little longer we will realise what our Women's team have known for more than the past 4 - 10 years ago. Let us embrace the fact that neither R.C. or the iRb have any interest in using the Women's game as a marketing tool to expand the appeal of the Game to the World at large.

The size of the staff, regardless of how many offices R.C. operates is top heavy for the size of the business it is managing. The Committee and it's Chairman determine how many staff are required. Once again we can look to Dublin who have a template for the ideal staff requirements and positions to be filled.

Well if we still had a Board of Directors who might have had the ca-hoonas way back in 2003/4 and withdraw their application to host the last WRWC, even as late as January / February when the organising committee, the CEO and the then Alberta Board members knew that they had lost Federal as well as Provincial funding for the event. Then we would not have acquired a crippling debt.

What does it say of our then R.C. representatives and Board members then and our now anonymous current cluster of Committee men and their tireless leader, the Chairman that they let the world governing body, the iRB strangle the growth of the game in North America by leaving Canada drowning in such a pool of debt that they themselves were the secondary principals in this 2006 economic disaster when the RFU were in the wings, begging for the event to be transferred in time to England.

So do the Ladies know ????

They have known a long time just how absurd this whole organisation we call Rugby Canada is run. It is we the jocks that sit on our clubs boards or our provincial boards that have turned our blind eye to all of this over as many years. Why have we the jocks allowed this to happen? Well like the possible elevation of the Past President of Ontario to this august committee might not receive the invitation to take the elevator to the next floor.

It is self perpetuating and self serving.

No this Faust, Winger, Frank and that other pompous commentator who like myself has been around the game too long, this is not negative journalism. It is the facts and the self interested parties to the mess have no guts to stand up and in the world rugby press and expose the absurd and crippling debt that the iRB have and dumped on our mat and continue to physically hams-string Rugby in Canada.

If nothing else Rugby Canada can default on the debt and see how the world opinion will react to any intended sanctions that the iRB may want to impose on Canada for taking such debt.

How much do the ladies program need? well the interest alone on the debt is $80,000.00 per annum alone. How much of the principal hes been repaid. If you see the current Financials its miserable effort will have to in there somewhere, however, in a real fiscally responsible NSO the repayments over a 10 year debt reduction plan would be in or around a further $80,000.00 per year.

Default the punitive loan, let the iRB as the co-signers with the Bank of Nova Scotia. The iRB stand good for the debt and the Canadian ladies would possibly see $160,000.00 p.a. funding.

But wait, we still have a bunch of bozo's running the show and a top heavy staff.

See you all up in arms again this time next year and the ones after that.

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago
tlml1234
Member

The IRB is providing a grant of 750,000 pounds for the England WWC,what was the IRBs contribution to Canada's.

Posted 1 year ago #
admin
Key Master

The IRB is giving Canada a lot of money every single year so why the complaints against the IRB. Why would they pay the debts of the Women's World Cup? maybe this even didn't succeed because it was poorly marketed and the Rugby community didn't show up to watch the games. Where would we be now if the IRB pulled the funding.

If your in Ontario and have complaints why not show up to the Rugby Canada Annual General Meeting rather than posting on this site.

We need to take responsibility for our own actions rather than blaming other parties particularly parties that are generously funding us now on a annual basis.

Posted 1 year ago #
tlml1234
Member

Admin chillax,I'm not concerned about the money the IRB give to Canada ( of which most i'm sure is earmarked for the mens program) or anybody else for that matter.What I am concerned about is specifics here, the 750,000 pounds is going to the 2010 WWC and nothing else as far as I know.What I would like to know is how much did the IRB contribute to the 2006 WWC.England are saying it will cost approx 1,000,000 pounds to run the event,and they may just break even at that.

Posted 1 year ago #
Harry Craig
Member

One thing people seem to forget is that Rugby Canada never asked to host the World Cup it was given to us by the IRB. If it didn't go well I feel they should cover the shortfall, not us.

Posted 1 year ago #
Toothlesstiger
Moderator

Well ADMIN you are then possibly a real member of R.C. Admin or you just like to appear so.

In any event I love how you skip over the real issues and go straight to telling us about the iRB High Performance funding which by the way all nations in the positions 9 thru to possibly 19 on the WRC standings receive exactly the same funding. Now how about the top four nations?

Back in 2004 before the location of the 2010 RWC had been awarded, NZ applied for and received $10.00 million our of the 2030 RWC profits. Nations like Scotland & Ireland for the 2007 Churchil Cup were given by the iRB / RWC $2,000,000.00 each to participate.

Now how does $800,000.00 compare to those little green apples.

I stick to my earlier position that our Representative at the iRB could not organise a p..sing contest in the iRB Board room washrooms. How difficult would it take to find out of all the members of the iRB 16 members that would wish to have this ridiculous WRWC 2006 debt wrapped up and forgiven.

I willing admit that I have no knowledge of what monies that the iRB advanced for the Edmonton WRWC but I do know that R.C. had at the last minute go out and secure a television lead for the transmitting of the games to N.Z. and I believe England & Australia at the additional cost to the already flawed budget.

It would not surprise if the rumour mills correct if not accurate regarding the brass balled RFU to stand up and demand iRB funding for their WRWC.

Admin, whether you are Nick or Bob Kersual just step up to the plate and identify yourself.

Those that have something to hide have poor memories and those aggrieved have long memories.

My name is Gordon McInnes as I am sure most of you already know!!

Posted 1 year ago #
defenseWTF
Member

Faust said:
Here Here.
Funny complain about 10$ when they have wasted that much on spilled beer in one night or hamburger &fries, but we expected our girls to spend $3000 of their own money to play for our country. $3000 is much more spilled beer.

Cutting staff, no- but putting in the right people and the give them incentives to do things better than an average job.

My big issue with the development of Rugby in Canada is that we are going backwards. We market the sport like it is in Wales or New Zealand. The issue is we need to market it and gain support of people outside the usual crowd.

As for Women's rugby, they pay their dues and come out help clubs. I know many clubs who not exist today if they did not have the women members to support them. They added growth to the game while men's memberships have been in a decline. Men get a free ride to RWC 2011 (in comparison). I will gladly go without the two beers on Friday & give them the $10.

Frank, you are a negative person.

I know first hand of what it is going to cost this year, and the girls have been advised to budget for a cost of $9K this year. That and about 8 weeks of unpaid leave from work.... do the math. so I am also very keen on someone being accountable at RC in terms of sponsorship and fundraising for the girls. As mentioned previous, the have 4 years to figure out these cost for every WC. RC seriously needs to pull their head in!!!!

Posted 1 year ago #
Faust
Moderator

defenseWTF said:
I know first hand of what it is going to cost this year, and the girls have been advised to budget for a cost of $9K this year. That and about 8 weeks of unpaid leave from work.... do the math. so I am also very keen on someone being accountable at RC in terms of sponsorship and fundraising for the girls. As mentioned previous, the have 4 years to figure out these cost for every WC. RC seriously needs to pull their head in!!!!

Here Here

Posted 1 year ago #
Harry Craig
Member

I'll gladly pay an extra $10 for the women but I hope this isn't something we have to do every four years, get your house in order RC.

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

Harry, I think for once you have it correct. Rugby Canada is counting on the goodness of every person in the rugby community to bail them out in their desperation to fund the girls for the world cup. Rugby Canada need to get their house in order.

The girls need to configure their own board, hire their own CEO and finance raiser. Get their own money from Sport Canada and the irb.

Posted 1 year ago #
rugby.development
Member

Harry thank you you hit the nail on the head.

Giving $10 for the ladies is not the issue it is the fact that RC continues to need to ask the members for this every mens and womens world cup that is so frustrating and needs to change.

Frank great idea for the women to do this and they have long talked about it.

However a few problems emerge - One RC is the NSO for Rugby in Canada and therefore Sport Canada funding goes to them. Making Sport Canada change their this would be very difficult and would take years. There is a very strict standard an NSO has to meet to be considered NSO and eligible for funding and the women would not meet it.

Second if mens rugby cannot attract sponsorship and fundraising as you say what makes you think a smaller part of the small rugby numbers would be able to do more and attract more money?

Perhaps a better option would be for RC to hire a fundraiser and sponsorship manager for the womens and age grade programs and work with the CRF to create programs that will raise money specifically for these programs.

Frank fyi earlier I was referring to the CRF to set up a fund that people can donate to not to cover RC shortfalls which I certainly did not create as you tried to infer.

Posted 1 year ago #
rugby.development
Member

Toothless Tiger were you referring to me as pompous?

If you found me pompous I will apologize as that was not my intention. My intention was to state the facts which I have done and if you don't like them that is your prerogative.

Fact the 2006 Womens World Cup was foisted upon Canada by a few board members to enhance their ego. England wanted it and should have had it but certain board members convinced the iRB Canada wanted it.

If people want to affect changes in our great sport get involved and work from the inside

Posted 1 year ago #
Faust
Moderator

Frank said:
Harry, I think for once you have it correct. Rugby Canada is counting on the goodness of every person in the rugby community to bail them out in their desperation to fund the girls for the world cup. Rugby Canada need to get their house in order.

The girls need to configure their own board, hire their own CEO and finance raiser. Get their own money from Sport Canada and the irb.

I disagree. Instead of adding more overhead, just fire the people who cannot do their jobs. Why the hell do we need to add more positions and admin costs? Do we set a new board for juniors.

I agree with 10$ and I have stated it in a previous post.
Rugby Canada could have "buried" the cost by including a hike in membership dues, but they did not. So the cost is something that they missed or they have a short fall.

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

The concept is to separate entirely from the current NSO structure. All the dues that the women pay will go to their own union. The provincial team dues and money will go to their own union. The sub union money will be directed to their own union. They can apply for their own federal and provincial grants. They will get money from Sport Canada and it is short sighted or narrow minded to think that Sport Canada will not look at this structure change. Seven's is a different game and Sport Canada will want to own the podium. The CRF are giving money to Crosse to attend the HK 7's. Judging by this logic, I am sure the CRF would find it in their heart of hearts to fund the national women's team.
There is not a lot of companies out there willing to sponsor rugby and this would make the women accountable to sustain their own needs. They did not ask for the WC to be held in Edmonton, (who the fcuk wants to go there) and they did not ask for the tax to be imposed.

Rugby develop guy you are Pompous and I am positive about that.

Posted 1 year ago #
teamaccess
Member

rugby.development said:

Second if mens rugby cannot attract sponsorship and fundraising as you say what makes you think a smaller part of the small rugby numbers would be able to do more and attract more money?

The women would be ranked way higher than the men internationally and consitently win on the world stage. The men, not so much.

Just one reason someone could perhaps want to be involved with the women's program but not the men's.

In fact, I had recently heard this rumour: Rugby Canada turned down a "bigtime" (I'm guessing Adidas, Caterbury or Nike) rugby brand that was interested in sponsoring the NSWT because said sponsor wanted nothing to do with the men's program. Can anyone provide more insight into this?

If this in fact is true, while the NSWT pays to play - including paying for their kit - our governing body has reached an alltime low.

Posted 1 year ago #
Harry Craig
Member

The idea of a seperate governing body for women is an interesting one. While it may help the women in some respects, it would have trouble gaining acceptance from Sports Canada and the IRB. I think that all or nearly all other sports in Canada have a single governing body and that is what Sports Canada wants. England used to have a seperate Womens union but they merged in the last ten years with the RFU, partly, I believe at the behest of the IRB. While maybe some things would be handled better by seperate board for women there is strenthg in numbers and both sides help each other at National, Provincial, Branch and club level. I think the idea of a seperate womens body will not go far.

Posted 1 year ago #
Faust
Moderator

Shortfall Explanation from Rugby Canada

There was a lot of discussion on the various line items - with the big issue surrounding the improved strength of the Canadian dollar vs the British Pound. This is significant because the International Rugby Board makes its payments to Rugby Canada in sterling, and with the variance - it has resulted in a nearly 30 per cent shortfall against budget (if exchange takes place).

That is believable. Sterling at Christmas 1.73, now it is 1.53.

Posted 1 year ago #
Harry Craig
Member

If the IRB is headquartered in Dublin why are payments in Stirling and not Euros? Just wondering.

Posted 1 year ago #
Frank
Member

Canadian irb representative LeFevre states
"While it is important to develop the grassroots, if you abandon the tip of the spear, I am afraid it will be too late when you try and keep pace with the modern game,"
offered the IRB representative.

What LeFevre fails to realize is that the tip of the spear can't do any damage without a good grip on the handle. It is obvious that this current board and administration have lost touch with modern game and it is time to get a grip on the handle.

Posted 1 year ago #
Faust
Moderator

I think they lost or never knew how to sell/market the game in Canada.

Posted 1 year ago #
defenseWTF
Member

teamaccess said:
The women would be ranked way higher than the men internationally and consitently win on the world stage. The men, not so much.

Just one reason someone could perhaps want to be involved with the women's program but not the men's.

In fact, I had recently heard this rumour: Rugby Canada turned down a "bigtime" (I'm guessing Adidas, Caterbury or Nike) rugby brand that was interested in sponsoring the NSWT because said sponsor wanted nothing to do with the men's program. Can anyone provide more insight into this?

If this in fact is true, while the NSWT pays to play - including paying for their kit - our governing body has reached an alltime low.

TeamAccess: correct, CCC (Canterbury) had conversations with the Womans program to disucss potential sponsorship. Additionally, Kukri put in a bid for both the national men and woman 7s program. RC stayed with status quo which i am assuming offered them more perks....

the interesting thing here is that barbarian/kooga dont make womans sizes (or at least didnt in last years 7s world cup) where kukri does. tough go on the woman seeing they have to buy their own kit.

Posted 1 year ago #